As some of you may remember, in the first flash interview done with Riccardo Taverna, president of We Glad, during an event in Milan, I expressed the desire to do a longer and more in-depth one. An invitation placed between the lines (but explicit) of the article, which he promptly accepted. And here we are. We met in a bar in Milan with the premise that I prefer: more than an interview it will be a chat and so it was.
The fact that this interview comes out today, in International Day of Persons with Disabilities, it’s just a coincidence, it wasn’t intended, but in hindsight it’s right. And not for what Taverna has or has had (Cdp, Parkinson’s and a heart attack), but for what he is and what he does in this daily civil and political battle against architectural barriers.
Childhood and youth
Let’s start from the beginning. Who is Riccardo Taverna?
“I like to define myself as a person who tries to live a normal life every day and who succeeds by making an effort and setting goals. I was born in Milan. I lived my childhood in Libyain Benghazi to be exact, because my dad worked there. They have been ten splendid years. I was two years old, my sister had just been born and my mother was pregnant with my brother.”
What memories do you have of Libya?
“I remember the sea, we were always in the water, the summer season started in February and ended in November. I remember the friends with whom we had a reunion here in Milan eight/nine years ago and for two days we didn’t leave the facility because of how happy we were to see each other again and because of everything we had to tell each other.”
How was it returning to Italy?
“A trauma. There we were used to playing on the street, but here in Milan it was already unthinkable and very dangerous. School wasn’t easy either, I went from a high school where there was nothing but strikes and self-management, to one where we really studied and let’s say that I liked doing other things, even if discipline was part of my education”.
How come?
“At the age of 10 I signed up for a judo course which after six months became competitive, so until I was 21 I did judoI came third at the Italian championships. And judo frames you, you have to be disciplined, even if you’re alone fighting it’s still a challenge with yourself, and if you lose it means you deserved to lose.”
Was that his path?
“I did judo, I did weightlifting and running to train, I went windsurfing and skiing like a madman. I was a Bocconi student, yuppie Milanese who was taking it easy and then suddenly life warned me that things they were about to change and there I had to put to the test everything that judo had taught me, that is, discipline, not giving up, getting up after a fall. I had to test my ability to deal with problems that were bigger than me. But right from the start I chose to face it alone.”
What was the first sign?
“Once a friend attacked me from behind to play. I weighed twice as much as her, so it should have been child’s play for me to land her, but I couldn’t. I was coming from a period of physical tiredness which however I attributed to work and intense study, I underestimated it. However, that episode made me think and so I talked about it with the doctor. First of all it was necessary to exclude the two worst evils: multiple sclerosis or brain tumor. I wanted to have the MRI without telling my parents, but I had to ask them for money. From there began an adventure that still lasts today.”
The disease
And they diagnosed her with CDP…
“Exactly, which is a degenerative neurological disease. In practice the immune system no longer recognizes it myelinwhich is the outer layer of the nerve, which is the one that conducts the electrical impulse, so if myelin is missing you lose strength and sensitivity. Forty years ago there was no diagnosis, there was a description of the symptoms because it is a rare disease, so I discovered it later. The advantage is that CDP has a slow progression, so up to the age of 38-39 I lived an almost normal life, albeit with many limitations.”
Did he have to leave judo at that point?
“No, I put that aside because I had finished third in the Italian championships and I had no talent. I had to be honest with myself.”
He couldn’t digest third place…
“Exactly” (laughs ndr)
Was there a key moment that you remember?
“No, I was carried away by the disease almost discreetly”.
And how did you experience this journey?
“With an acceleration on the awareness of who I am, because when you have physical limits you have to rebuild yourself, but starting from an honest analysis of who you are. I wanted to become general manager of an advertising agency, then I set up my own and there I began to understand that I could live a different life from the one I had imagined, because I was ready to face itas if I didn’t have a disease. I did everything others did, helped by a carer after about ten years. I didn’t put the illness inside me and I didn’t make it become an element of identity.”
We often hear it said that illness changes, it makes you better. Was it like this?
“I think I have improved, because if I think of 23-year-old Riccardo I would slap him. I prefer the one today, beyond the maturity due to age, who has chosen to live this life talking about sustainability as a way to help others.”
He said he experienced the illness as an accessory, he doesn’t identify it. But did it ever influence him? I think of the emotional sphere, in relationships…
“I always didn’t care about how others looked at me and I didn’t even have any problems in the emotional sphere. If I had to know a woman, she knew me like this. There was no point in hiding it and when I invited her out, if she accepted it meant there was one more step.”
Work and civic commitment
Today there is WeGlad. How was it born and where does it want to go?
“WeGlad has two objectives: to make points of sale accessible to people with disabilities; map the territory. At a national level, but not only. We also had our first contacts with foreign countries such as Canada and Great Britain. Maybe being sick made me want to make my mark. In my work I have always tried to look where others don’t look and see if I found something in the corners that made the difference. Eight, nine years ago they called me for the Disability Day and tell my story. I said things that shocked those who listened to me.”
Learn more:
WeGlad: solutions for more inclusive and accessible retail
That is to say?
“I said that in my opinion people with disabilities must thank the company they join, because it makes a sacrifice, because the alternative is to pay the fine and they must be aware of this, but they must also be aware of the responsibility they have towards of their “colleagues” with disabilities who are looking for work. So if they hide so as not to work, they are doing the harm of all their companions. From there they called me to a lot of conferences to repeat this thing.”
What kind of narrative is there about disability today?
“There is always the suspicion that companies are telling lies. I sometimes think that a company is excellent, then I meet some people who work there and I understand that there is a lot of rubbish. Information flows. But I recognize that the press acts as a megaphone so people talk about it, they talk about it inappropriately, but the important thing is to talk about it.”
Speaking of print, where is the line with ableism? Is it right to underline, for example, that a person with a disability has achieved a certain goal despite the illness?
“I will make enemies, but I am in favor of these things being said. I also tell my story to say: if I did it, you can do it too. I am not bothered by ableism, on the contrary it is welcome ”.
Is there something that is little talked about regarding disability?
“It is not considered that there are many people with disabilities who they don’t leave the house, because the world is full of barriers. The thing that bothers me is that the fact that a person with a disability is “pityed” is ignored. Using the right, “politically correct” terminology to state the obvious and then being disrespectful in other ways. The problem is right there. Attention often shifts from substance to appearance.”
Even in politics some issues become flags, but then remain so. Empty containers…
“There are 4 million people with mobility difficulties in Italy. If we calculate 2.3 people around each person with a disability, four become 12 million. If you do the party of people with disabilitiesyou have the first party in Italy. What politicians don’t realize is that that pool is at their disposal if you solve their problems.”
Nobody talks to that basin? Isn’t there a political representation?
“No, absolutely. Suffice it to say that in 1987 the Peba (Plan for the elimination of architectural barriers) was launched and to date only 8% of Italian municipalities have activated it. Not all of this 8% did it.”
Where is Milan at?
“Things have improved, they are slowly improving, but there are still a lot of limitations.”
The barriers are also political so…
“If there was the political will to classify people with disabilities as people, then something could be done. Bear in mind that in Milan there are 195,000 people with mobility difficulties? Those are votes.”
Are you thinking of creating a party to collect these votes?
“Every now and then I get the whim.”
